Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: James Duffield Newsgroups: scea.yaroze.freetalk,scee.yaroze.freetalk.english Subject: Re: anti-mod chip / pirating / backups / etc. Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:11:15 +0000 Organization: PlayStation Net Yaroze (SCEE) Lines: 244 Message-ID: <36C6D97C.9D43D0A7@btinternet.com> References: <7a0a6u$714@scea> <36C40EC4.E4082468@datasys.net> <7a187m$o0v10@chuka.playstation.co.uk> <36C488C0.8DF59CF0@datasys.net> <7a2cd1$2i83@scea> <7a3pvs$7op11@chuka.playstation.co.uk> <36C5AEB2.BE73A768@btinternet.com> <36C6236E.D0B1F5B@manc.u-net.com> <36C6A344.67D0AF35@btinternet.com> <36C6C7CC.F953EEC3@manc.u-net.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-172-60-120.btinternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5B7FC20C6228B9C72344A983" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: chuka.playstation.co.uk scea.yaroze.freetalk:1192 scee.yaroze.freetalk.english:3486 --------------5B7FC20C6228B9C72344A983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim In response: James Shaughnessy wrote: > I don't believe you said that -- you said that "any attempt to stop > piracy is, ultimately, a waste of resourses" which is not the same > thing as "it is almost guaranteed to fail" and you know it ;-) Perhaps i should clarify my point. "Any attempt to stop piracy is ultimatley a waste of resourses, because it is almost guarnteed to fail". > > > So are you saying that it's not a waste of resources, and in fact a > necessity in order to keep one step ahead of the crackers? How come > we don't we need it on music CDs then? I'm saying that if someone could come up with a way of complete protection, be it software or hardware protection, then it would not be a waste of resourses. And i'am sure if someday someone comes up with complete protection the music industry would be just as keen to implement it on music discs as the software industry would be on games or applications. But the way things are, we are a long way off any such protection, and to get the level of protection required, taking into consideration todays technology, this would almost have to become a seperate industry. > > > Surely the fact that you have a chipped PlayStation and still manage > to fight the temptation of buying pirate games is proof enough that > you don't need nanny-hardware to prevent you from breaking the law, or > are you and I in a total minority in having this ability? I know of only a few people who have had their playstations chipped and have NOT bought copied software, so i beleive the latter halve of your staement to be true, we could well be in the minority. > > > Cheers, > Jim > > (Although by definition "grey imports" are not wholly legal > themselves..) On this we are agreed, however the proceeds of such purchases still find their way back to the manufacturer, and not some arse on a market stall. If anyone else cares to join the Sony debating society, feel free. Cheers James > > > > >> >> So as i have said before, unless someone can take software >> protection in a new direction (which i for one hope someday will >> be the case), piracy will always be with us. >> >> BTW having been the owner of a Vic 20, a C64, an Amiga, >> and an Atari ST, i also know how rife piracy was on all these >> formats. But lets face it, in the history of computer games none of >> them >> have been killed of in such great style by piracy as the Amiga ( my >> case >> in point). >> >> Cheers >> >> James D >> >> >> >> James Shaughnessy wrote: >> >> > Sorry James but I have to point out that you seriously contradict >> > yourself there -- firstly you agree with Nick saying you do need >> > copy protection built into hardware, then you summarise by saying >> > ultimately that it is a waste of time. >> > >> > I fully agree with your points though -- in the Amiga days piracy >> > was huge (most people I know only bought Amigas because they could >> > get loads of "free games"). Example, I bought World Class >> > Leaderboard (oh, I'm going back to Commodore 64 days now.. ;)) >> > which needed you to put a widget in the joystick port to run. What >> > a massive pain in the arse -- it's us honest mugs that suffer. >> > Like you said -- cracked version are available within DAYS of >> > release, be it Amiga, ST and it even happened in the C64 days if >> > you were in the know. Cracking crews were only born when there was >> > something to crack, and updating the encryption methods just gave >> > them a new challenge. >> > >> > So do you still agree that consoles shouldn't allow out-of-the-box >> > copying, or do you think they perhaps should be like your >> > Hi-Fi-Stereo and TV/Satellite-Video setup that allows idiot-proof >> > ways of copying (pirating) music and films? It's REALLY easy to >> > copy music CDs, so why do they still sell so many? A game CD has >> > to have the same philosophy surely? (er see other thread for more >> > ranting from me on this subject ;)) >> > >> > Jim >> > >> > >> > -- > ----------------------------------------- > James Shaughnessy james@manc.u-net.com > http://www.netyaroze-europe.com/~shaughnj > http://www.manc.u-net.com/home.htm > http://i.am/bart.simpson/ > ----------------------------------------- --------------5B7FC20C6228B9C72344A983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi  Jim

In response:

James Shaughnessy wrote:

I don't believe you said that -- you said that "any attempt to stop piracy is, ultimately, a waste of resourses" which is not the same thing as "it is almost guaranteed to fail" and you know it ;-)
Perhaps i should clarify my point. "Any attempt to stop piracy is ultimatley a
waste of resourses, because it is almost guarnteed to fail".
 

So are you saying that it's not a waste of resources, and in fact a necessity in order to keep one step ahead of the crackers?   How come we don't we need it on music CDs then?

I'm saying that if someone could come up with a way of complete protection,
be it software or hardware protection, then it would not be a waste of resourses.
And i'am sure if someday someone comes up with complete protection the
music industry would be just as keen to implement it on music discs as the
software industry would be on games or applications.
But the way things are, we are a long way off any such protection, and to
get the level of protection required, taking into consideration todays technology,
this would almost have to become a seperate industry.
 
 

Surely the fact that you have a chipped PlayStation and still manage to fight the temptation of buying pirate games is proof enough that you don't need nanny-hardware to prevent you from breaking the law, or are you and I in a total minority in having this ability?

I know of only a few people who have had their playstations chipped and have
NOT bought copied software, so i beleive the latter halve of your staement to
be true, we could well be in the minority.
 

Cheers,
Jim

(Although by definition "grey imports" are not wholly legal themselves..)

On this we are agreed, however the proceeds of such purchases still find their
way back to the manufacturer, and not some arse on a market stall.
 

If anyone else cares to join the Sony debating society, feel free.

Cheers

James

 
 
 
 
So as i have said before, unless someone can take software
protection in a new direction (which i for one hope someday will
be the case), piracy will always be with us.

BTW having been the owner of  a Vic 20, a C64, an Amiga,
and an  Atari ST, i also know how rife piracy was on all these
formats. But lets face it, in the history of computer games none of them
have been killed of in such great style by piracy as the Amiga ( my case
in point).

Cheers

James D
 
 

James Shaughnessy wrote:

Sorry James but I have to point out that you seriously contradict yourself there -- firstly you agree with Nick saying you do need copy protection built into hardware, then you summarise by saying ultimately that it is a waste of time.

I fully agree with your points though -- in the Amiga days piracy was huge (most people I know only bought Amigas because they could get loads of "free games").  Example, I bought World Class Leaderboard (oh, I'm going back to Commodore 64 days now.. ;)) which needed you to put a widget in the joystick port to run.  What a massive pain in the arse -- it's us honest mugs that suffer.  Like you said -- cracked version are available within DAYS of release, be it Amiga, ST and it even happened in the C64 days if you were in the know.  Cracking crews were only born when there was something to crack, and updating the encryption methods just gave them a new challenge.

So do you still agree that consoles shouldn't allow out-of-the-box copying, or do you think they perhaps should be like your Hi-Fi-Stereo and TV/Satellite-Video setup that allows idiot-proof ways of copying (pirating) music and films?  It's REALLY easy to copy music CDs, so why do they still sell so many?  A game CD has to have the same philosophy surely?  (er see other thread for more ranting from me on this subject ;))

Jim
 
 

--
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James Shaughnessy    james@manc.u-net.com
http://www.netyaroze-europe.com/~shaughnj
http://www.manc.u-net.com/home.htm
http://i.am/bart.simpson/
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