Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: "Nick Ferguson" Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.freetalk.english Subject: If the IRA stopped fighting, so can we! Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:02:04 +0100 Organization: PlayStation Net Yaroze (SCEE) Lines: 233 Message-ID: <6snapf$l6j20@chuka.playstation.co.uk> References: <35eee3a1.5783979@news.playstation.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.2.150.56 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >I never started. I wrote in as a reply to your message in which you >said I am easy to bug, and I wonder why you and everyone found it >offensive, it didn't contain anything offensive only the word bugger >which hardly is offensive. The mail I had to put up from you and your >supporters was what you call more than offensive don't you think? The word "bugger" is kinda offensive, actually - certainly in the context you used it. I mean, putting a subject line proclaiming (somewhat illiterately) that "DENNIS bugger" is, what? Meant to be friendly, or cheeky? Try using 'smileys' when you want to do something like that - but I think you weren't really trying to be funny, were you? >Here is a mail I had to put up with. I answerd to it for everyone to >read and be clear about. "Put up with"? Tanvir - that is so rich. The nonsensical crap you post on the newsgroups drives everyone nuts! >(This wasn't from you but you agreed to it), *Everyone* (almost) agrees with it. Mmmm, maybe there's a reason for that? >Yes I did post fo help on playing backups and I realise it was a >mistake ( why doesn't everyone forget that now?). Because posting about backups on an *official* SCE newsgroups smacks of one of two things - either immense stupidity or someone trying to be "cool" by saying - hey! - outrageous things to get people's attention... I think people have let that slide - it's the more recent stuff that gets us annoyed. >b. Wants to put together an all girl programming group? >Not true, I aimed for anyone, but I didn't include the guys in the >advert as I thought it (so so so so) obvious. >Come on SILLY people! "SILLY" people? Wow, you're really ingratiating yourself to fellow Yarozers, aren't you? Anyway, your post was certainly extremely funny and for a while I was pretty convinced that "Tanvir Khan" was something somebody made up (maybe even DEnnis) to give everyone a laugh. But no - you really exist. Sad fact: hardly any girls own a Yaroze - if any - which is a reflection on the social culture that surrounds the game industry, not to mention the ailing-but-still-about British academic tradition of blokes doing the science stuff, and girlies doing English lit and history... (hey, wait a minute - *I* did English Lit!?!) >c. Claims to be God of the games software industry? > >NO NO NO, I didn't claim to be the KING of the games industry (where >did that come from?). ROTFLOL. Well, not really but by God you are sooooo... I don't know!?! Do you really not understand what your posts sound like? I'm sorry, but your posts *sound* like you think the sun shines out your ass and that even though you acknowledge people here are better coders than you, YOU are the guy who has what it takes to kick ass in the industry. Well, nobody likes a bullshitter - and Tanvir - you spout some amazing crap, you know? >I just hope to be the BEST in the future, which >still is my aim. And it's a good aim - I think that is everyone here's aim, so you should be getting on with people. As far as I can tell, there is no rivalry here really - some people are good at some stuff, others are better at other stuff. Personally, I could be a much better coder (well, I could be much better at everything but that deficiency leaps out at me now) but then I like to think that I'm coming along OK and my diary, and the member demos hub, are my little contributions to the NY community... >EMAG DESIGN is what I call my wannabe company which >only includes me at the moment. I didn't know it will disturb people. >I'm just a beguinner at coding, you guys are far ahead of me. Whats >the PROBLEM with that. Nowt wrong with that in itself - Mr Frosty has been brandishing his wares under the moniker "The Hex Heroes", which is his wannabe company (hey I tried to join but he wouldn't let me)! I'm a beginner (well, novice now I suppose) at coding too, but when I first joined the ngs I didn't post stuff like "Nick F's Game Design Co is the COOOLEST in the world and make the best games with me!". No - I lurked a bit - reading messages and getting on with C and stuff in my own time, posting or mailing people when I needed help. I started the Yaroze Diary actually before I got a NY, and since then I have had a lot of mail both from NY people saying how much they like it and from non-members wanting to learn more about games programming and asking how I'm getting on. Which is nice. I seem to remember starting a thread on "favourite games" - purely because I was getting fed up of not understanding half the posts here!!! But I didn't mouth off, and I didn't become annoying by posting the same message 3 times in different (irrelevant) groups and then ignore the replys. ie. I seem to remember sending you some advice about learning C, but a few days later you posted the same message that I replied to again!?!? I mean, WTF? >d. Wants to know how to do collision detection? > >Yes! >e. Wants to know how to do backgrounds? >Yes! You know what? I wanted to learn how to do these things too only about 2 months ago. You know what I did? I went online, searched the ngs, the member's site and even (gasp) some non-Yaroze sites and got the relevant info/ideas. Then I fucking sat and stared at them for many hours till they made sense. Oh yeah - looking at other people's source helps, too. Of course, if you don't know any C then that isn't much help... >EXCUSE ME !!! I wil NOT take abuse like THIS (I hope I don't have >explain why). Nobody likes to eat humble pie, and to be honest I think some people are being a little rough on you. But come on! Just stop with this attitude and admit a few things.... I mean, can you PLEASE just admit.. 1) Your early posts sounded a wee bit arrogant (I'm being nice here) and were annoyingly vague and sounded a bit like someone who wanted other people to do the hard work for him. 2) Your early posts were stuck all over the ngs with no regard for subject matter 3) You have an AOL-ish habit of GOING INTO CAPS and over-using !!!!exclamation-marks!!! which is JuST tHE SoRt OF tHinG PeOple taKe THe PiSS OuT oF AfTEr BeING On-LinE FoR a FEW YeaRs... Just think for one moment: everyone else has taken issue with certain elements of your behaviour. To be fair, a few people also take issue with elements of DEnnis' behaviour which I have to say is justified to an extent - you're like kids goading each other on. But, at the end of the day, DEnnis is right - you really just need to start over. >PRAT ? (I think not). I'm not a prat, either but if I'd written what you've written in your mails I wouldn't be surprised if people thought I was one. I mean, you probably think I'm a prat for writing this, don't you? But if you want other people to NOT think you're a prat, don't write "I'm not a prat" - just don't behave like one... >I don't get it, I hardly write in much and still you guys formed a >silly character in your minds about me. I'm not like you think. OK. >I hope this clearifies things as I want to be a good member in >everyones books OK. Do you want to know my character portrayal that exists in my head about you? And I'm sure it's wrong (because everyone I meet in RL turns out to be different than I had imagined - I'm sure DEnnis is really a shy, bookish type) - but I imagine you to be a slightly spoiled 14-15 year old who got his NY due to pester power and flashing mommy and daddy a few pages of EDGE showing how good programmers salaries can get. Then, you get the thing and realise you just bought the World's Most Expensive Chipped Playstation and have to figure out how to use it. Sure, the guys at school think you're "da bomb" ("Tanvir has a Yazoo and he's gonna write Playstation games!!!!") but in your heart of hearts you're thinking. Whoah? What do I do now? So, you decide to project a confident front on the scene and come up with the intriguing idea of an all-gal NY team (hey - we'd all love that!) and post asking for some help. After all - what could be better than being the designer and getting all us/them programmer types to do all the dirty (read: hard) work..? You come up with an idea, they do it. And you get a game made! NERRRRR! Wrong answer! I know - I'm probably way out (Tanvir is married with 2 kids and lives in Stevenage, I just know it) but that is the impression I get from your mails. Just, tone it *down* a little. And realise that the only way you are going to get any games made is by knuckling down to some hard work (because , you know, it *is* work) by learning C and cracking on with the demos and examples and tutorials and stuff. You're really lucky - George Bain's NY tutorial stuff is really, really crackingly helpful and I wish I'd had it when I was just starting out. Hey - it's still useful to me - but I've found my learning curve (so far) has been exponential. Jesus, just looking at the amateur wars source makes me wanna puke. >I am willing to comprimiseand I want COMPRIMISING replies from you >DEniss and everyone else as well. So no more HATE MAIL. OK - here's my compromise. I will not write or say or think any more bad things about you IF you stop posting stuff that says/ indicates/ hints/ suggests you have the slightest clue about what makes a great game. I don't care, frankly. As I'm finding out, you can have the world's greatest idea on paper and just *completely* arse it up. And, as Brian Baird so helpfully pointed out, there are no jobs for "game designers" as such - sure as hell not at entry level, anyway. You are going to have to get good at something vaguely technical - preferably involving some programming - to make any positive impact on the NY scene. So, you want to be the greatest game designer/programmer huh? Well so do I and if you don't mind me saying it I'm way ahead of you - I am getting a grip on C, I have written 1 hemi-demi-semi decent 'game' and I don't have any illusions that I am not definitely in the bottom 5% of NY members ability-wise. So here's my personal challenge - in 6 months, can you learn C and churn out a first effort at a game? Ideally, one that kicks Mud N Blood's ass into orbit (shouldn't be hard)..? If you do that, then I will stop imagining you to be some whiny teen and give you some proper respect. Till then, I'll be polite and stick up for you - to the extent that I'm asking DEnnis (I know you're reading this D - and probably loving it) to lay off you too, and everyone else on the group. C'mon guys - let's give Tanvir a chance to begin again "in a golden land of opportunity" (oops too much Blade Runner) and forgive him the past like the kind, benevolent souls we are.... Tanvir - "I pardon you" but please - just swallow your not-inconsiderable pride and get to work! And next time you need help, try to do it yourself first until you get *real* stuck - that's the best way to learn IMHO. Good luck, Nick F PS Tanvir - maybe you should learn HTML if you don't already know it and make building a website your first project? After all, then you can tell us a bit more about yourself and your ideas! Plus, learning HTML is a pretty good introduction to the ideas behind programming. Kinda. And it's pish! --------------------------- http://www.saqnet.co.uk/users/nickf http://www.n64gazetta.com http://www.netyaroze-europe.com/~rookie1 ICQ #9464742 "That's impossible! Even for a computer..."