Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!trsoft.demon.co.uk!ARoss From: Anthony Ross Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.freetalk.english,scee.yaroze.mydemos Subject: Re: URGENT! OPM Games Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:56:39 +0100 Organization: I Lines: 203 Message-ID: References: <7n7n4f$6tn6@chuka.playstation.co.uk> <7ndks5$i4m7@chuka.playstation.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: trsoft.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Xref: chuka.playstation.co.uk scee.yaroze.freetalk.english:4365 scee.yaroze.mydemos:461 In article <7ndks5$i4m7@chuka.playstation.co.uk>, Alex Herbert writes > > > >Life's a bitch, huh? Other NY members have come across the same problems >and have written tools to help, and have been kind enough to share them with >us. Why aren't they in the tools section then? The point that I was making was that being caught out by this has often resulted in a major re-write of my data loading code in an attempt to find a non-existent fault (it encourages me to find nothing wrong with my code but infuriates me to find that such a simple problem has cost me an hour and a half of me precious spare time) >> 2) Having to make graphics and sounds in the first place (tiles, sound >> effects and stuff like that should be part of the boot CD) >> Ok I admit that this is a ridiculous complaint but the lack of a basic (decent) library of textures and basic object shapes leads to increased development time (and more of point 1) >But there are textures and GM sounds on the boot CD. Ok, they are limited >and quite poor really, but creating graphics and sounds are all part of game >creation, surely. > >> 3) No code samples in the (and a lack of consistency in the way things >> are done in the tutorials) >> > >There's plenty of source code and information on the NY/members web site. >Personally, I found the manuals explained most things adequately, and where >the didn't, the FAQ and these newsgroups provided the answers. > >> 4) Not much info on game design and implementation >> > >Well, that's really down to each individual and their talents (or lack of). >The most fun aspect of programming is the problem solving - working out how >to translate your ideas into code and onto the screen. So you are telling me that articles on good and bad style (algorithms) and articles on game design submitted by SONY's vast array of developers would be a bad idea? >> 5) No proper tools to work with (sprite tools etc) >> > >It's up to you to source these tools. Pro developers have to do the same. >Besides, there have been several opportuninties to get fully blown graphics >packages (which usually cost more than the complete Yaroze package) for free >on cover discs of magazines etc. - information on which has often been given >on these newsgroups. I have some of the most fancy graphics packages available but none of these do the sort of things that programmers really need. These are specialist functions which make game design easier. Repeating tile creation. Tile map editors. Interactive sprite manipulation. etc. OK I could write these myself (and have done in the past on the PC) but why should I? We all bought into a game design club which SONY promised to support (I am not slagging off the support team but the amount of resources which SONY seem to be making available to them). SONY could (and probably do) have all of these developed internally by their coders. So why can't we have them? >> 6) No multitap libs (we all know that the good multi-player games can >> sometimes look poor but we accept this because they are so much fun so >> we could produce good 4-player games and people would overlook the poor >> graphics that home-coders produce) >> > >Agreed. It's a shame, but we can't have everything. I'm glad you agree but it's not just a shame it is a restrictive measure which will always make our stuff second best. >> 7) No incentive (if we give a submission for the magazine we get nothing >> and some mainstream coders can take our ideas and make a better >> version). >> SONY could have easily set up some deal with their developers (or at >> least established links) to have our work included on mainstream games >> as sub-games. The developers could then pay us a standard fee for our >> work. Equally, SONY could produce a compilation of the best work (say >> 10 games per disk) and sell them commercially with coders getting a >> royalty (or fixed fee) >> > >The incentives are: fun, learning, and the fact that the NY project is a >proving ground for new talent, and therefore a possible way into the >industry. It is also very satisfying to get a game published on the OPM >cover disc, not to mention the recognition received. And, your arrogance >bemuses me. You really think that your ideas are too good to share without You are quite naive if you think that my attitude is pure arrogance and that nobody is ripping anybody off in the world (where intellectual property is concerned). I actually wouldn't mind having my ideas copied (imitation being a form of flattery) if I had already been rewarded for my efforts. >someone ripping them off and making a killing from them? Well, in that case >I suggest you start developing your ideas on the PC, then try and find a >publisher. Or, try and get a job in the industry - but then, you need to Why can't we just find a publisher now? Again because of a restrictive measure! >prove yourself first to do that. I gave up needing to prove myself years ago. (after getting my honours degree in physics and masters in opto-electronics and optical information processing) So I'm not some snot-nosed kid who just wants to complain. I am a reasonably well-educated 31 year old who wants to see a bit more effort from SONY (it's called after sales care in most countries) >> >> We are supposed to solve these problems in our spare time and produce >> games in a matter of weeks. Mainstream PSX stuff is produced by teams >> and take months or years. >> > >It's what game designers/programmers (i.e. you) do - solve the problems. If I love solving the problems (I hate doing graphics and sounds) >you want it all done for you, then that already exists - they're called >commercial games and I believe you can pick them up for £20-50 at your local >games retailer. smart-ass >We do it in our spare time bacause WE WANT TO. We do what we want, when we Why do we fart around on the Yaroze...because we want to....because we want to...........(sounds like a song to me) >want and at the pace we want, and no one is expecting us to do anything >other than that. Nor is anyone expecting us to compete with professional >development teams. > >> I don't want to release something which looks like a load of cack but I >> don't want to give away something, which represents loads of my spare >> time, for no payment. >> > >If your talents don't live up to your own expectations then that's your >problem. This is an obvious baiting but I have to respond. This has nothing to do with my talents not matching my own expectations. It is to do with having a professional attitude to anything which you are prepared to attach your name to. >You are not going to get paid! You made a mistake in buying a NY if you >expect to get paid for anything you do with it. It's a HOBBY. It's not >work, and it's not a job. > >> What about a competition with some prizes? Sony are loaded so they can >> afford it. > >What like GDUK? I checked the site a few times this year and it seemed to only have info about last year. Is it running this year? >> Or did they only start the Yaroze program to generate new >> game ideas on the cheap! >> > >Yeah, let's face it, the NY scene is really bulging with great, new, fresh >ideas. People with great ideas are two a penny. People who can put great >ideas to effect are those in demand. How do you know what people are doing at the moment? Not everyone has the time to write into the groups (or wants to talk about some project which they couldn't put a release date on). > >> Rant over************************************************************* >> > >Thank {insert expletive here} for that. > >> Believe it or not I am actually producing a game for Yaroze but I am not >> sure how long it will take. If I had all the graphics and sounds done I >> could finish the code in a couple of weeks. However I have no idea when >> I will be finished because the graphics and sound are such a grey area >> (because they are down to your own personal standards and are limited by >> your tools and artistic ability) >> >> >> My game is a variation on Puzzle Bobble (Bust a Move2,3 etc) >> >> > >Ah, now who's stealing who's ideas exactly? Every first person shooter hails back to Wolfenstein 3D or whatever came before it. What I said above was the closest example to what I'm doing. I could have just said puzzle game. Anyway I wouldn't do a straight clone since nobody would want it. And I wouldn't release any game that couldn't hold my own attention for at least 5 minutes. >Oh, I get it! This is a wind up isn't it? Had me fooled for a while there. You need to deal with your rage mucker! Get help soon! In your reply you showed absolutely no respect for someone who you don't even know and took a SUPERIOR tone at every possible opportunity. A REAL COMMUNITY SPIRIT >> >> ------------------------------------ >> Anthony Ross > > >Herbs (....must....resist...one-liner....urge..) > > > Don't feel the need to rely (I'm sure your wrist is very tired) ------------------------------------ Tony