Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: sosman@terratron.com (Steven Osman) Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.freetalk.english Subject: Re: PS2 Dev kit Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:34:12 GMT Organization: PlayStation Net Yaroze (SCEE) Lines: 143 Message-ID: <3b71d3d5.1318759035@www.netyaroze-europe.com> References: <3B6A72B5.C98C7CB9@127.0.0.1> <3b6c1d6e.1206518802@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kh9pv$l511@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kj6cm$nog1@www.netyaroze-europe.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dsl092-099-074.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Matt, On PS2 Linux software distribution: You bring up some pretty interesting points. Honestly, I was tempted to split this message up in two (as I should have with the original) so we could have two good threads going on. From a technical perspective, what you suggest may not be impossible, and maybe we should even discuss with Sony the ability to administer such a part of their broadband network ourselves. Conceptually, someone could "contract" with Sony to perform the verification process. I'm sure lots of us would consider volunteering for the job. Anyway, we could have members from this pool download the games and place it in some temporary part of their broadband network (a sort of testing zone), test it out on our own machines, and then perhaps digitally sign the final product, if approved and move it from the testing area to some publicly available part of the network. By having us do it Sony can avoid a majority of the Q&A expense, and by allowing a pool of people to do the work they can grant and revoke access to individuals as they see fit (if someone's been approving too much crap, for example). They can also ensure that there are enough people working on it and there's little worry about any one person getting bored one week, or going on vacation, or being too busy at work to go through the submissions. The "contract" portion could also ensure that the members of the "committee" fully understand the quality standards required. I am not thinking of a contract that will be set up to allow Sony to sue someone for not performing his job properly, but rather, a contract to ensure that if you don't do it properly, you lose your privileges and nobody has to have any major argument about it. On the purpose of PS2 Linux: Maybe the question of price can be answered by producing more units. Sadly, I don't feel that Linux is still ready for mainstream, but that may change in the reasonably near future. If they built enough units they could add one more marketing edge for the system. After all, when people complain about the hefty price tag on the PS2, I remind them that they are getting a PSX, a PS2, and a DVD player for that price. I kinda wish they includes wireless remotes with the system so that you wouldn't need to really even point out the DVD player aspect -- it would be understood immediately. I also think retailers could always put a unit next to their DVD players so that someone shopping for a player may consider buying the console instead -- something that may not really enter your mind if you're looking for a player. Anyway, the PS2 Linux kit conceivably adds (along with a few more dollars) the fact that you get a computer -- and we're not talking a silly webtv box, but a full blown system. What I'm trying to say is, given the right marketing, I bet Sony could sell a *lot* of PS2 Linux kits. Given the wrong marketing, I may be agreeing with you -- make it a little pricier so people who buy it really do want it and know what they're getting. Anyway, enough about all that. Sauce On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:16:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" wrote: >I agree that allowing amateur developers like us to self distribute anything >we have written would go against the plug-and-play ethic Sony want for the >PS2. It would probably be fractured and unrewarding for the users too if >these programs for their PS2 could be placed anywhere on the internet. But >this could be simply solved if Sony implement a cut-down QA submission >process, posting our programs in a centralised reserve. Just like getting a >Yaroze game approved for OPM you could get you Linux Kit game approved for >distribution via the Broadband Network. > >I expect the main hurdle is if Sony are prepared to pay for this QA to be >done when the games are going to be given away for free. It adds value to >thier broadband network, but it's also an unreliable and inconsistent >source. They did it for the Yaroze (on a smaller scale) with OPM so I guess >it's possible. > >I believe the Yaroze2 element is just a subset of the Linux Kit, the OS and >GUI means it can be used as a finished tool and need not ever be programmed. >This worries me a little bit, mainly because the allocation numbers are so >small and Linux lovers so numerous it might be hard to get hold of it to >write games with. Secretly I hope that they release here with a higher price >tag to put off those who just want to tweak, fiddle and run web servers. > >MattV > > >Steven Osman wrote in message >news:3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com... >> Matt, >> >> I'm not quite sure, but I have a hunch that Sony doesn't want your >> games to run on all systems. >> >> On one hand, I hate the thought of it, but then again, I appreciate >> it, too. >> >> I can't tell you how many PC applications I've downloaded that were >> just pure crap -- and that was the good ones. The bad ones messed up >> the system, don't uninstall properly, etc, etc. One of the things >> that sony does when they give you a prof. developer license is require >> you to "accept" certain standards and adhere to them; in fact, in the >> recent discussions about the NY demos being distributed, there were >> additional guidelines and requirements for qualifying games. >> >> Perhaps the one thing all Yaroze members have in common is a sense of >> adventure. Maybe being part of the community makes us aware of the >> potential flaws in people's yaroze code as we download it, so we don't >> blame it on the console and go buy the other guy's console (which >> looks very suspiciously similar to a PC without a keyboard and mouse). >> >> Anyway, all that being said, I'm on your side, too. I thought the >> dreamcast was kind of interesting with the little downloadable games >> you could get for the VMU, I thought it'd be fun to write little VMU >> games, for example. The dreamcast allowed you to download those games >> right out of the box, too (i.e. modem was already included). >> >> As far as PS2 Linux, I'm still confused about something. I can't tell >> if it was intended to be akin to a "Net Yaroze 2," or if it was more >> about letting people use the computer they've already bought without >> knowing it (i.e. why bother buying a computer when you can just pop in >> a linux kit into the system you already have. Just think -- you get >> ps2 + ps one + dvd player + computer all in one... Not bad, huh?) >> >> Sauce >> >> On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:02:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" >> wrote: >> >> >I really hope SONY provide some mechanism to allow owners of the upcoming >> >braodband adapter/HD to download programs by Linux Kit developers. >Imagine >> >if our yaroze games were available to all PS owners. >> > >> >MattV >> > >> >