Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: "Paul Holman" Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.freetalk.english Subject: Re: PS2 Dev kit Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:56:20 +0100 Organization: SCEE Lines: 162 Message-ID: <9kn0eq$qtb2@www.netyaroze-europe.com> References: <3B6A72B5.C98C7CB9@127.0.0.1> <3b6c1d6e.1206518802@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kh9pv$l511@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kj6cm$nog1@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <3b71d3d5.1318759035@www.netyaroze-europe.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc2-hems3-0-cust144.bre.cable.ntl.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Check out ... http://www.technology.scee.net/cgi-bin/sceeweb1/scee.pl?ps2linuxint "Steven Osman" wrote in message news:3b71d3d5.1318759035@www.netyaroze-europe.com... > Matt, > > On PS2 Linux software distribution: > > You bring up some pretty interesting points. Honestly, I was tempted > to split this message up in two (as I should have with the original) > so we could have two good threads going on. > > From a technical perspective, what you suggest may not be impossible, > and maybe we should even discuss with Sony the ability to administer > such a part of their broadband network ourselves. > > Conceptually, someone could "contract" with Sony to perform the > verification process. I'm sure lots of us would consider volunteering > for the job. Anyway, we could have members from this pool download > the games and place it in some temporary part of their broadband > network (a sort of testing zone), test it out on our own machines, and > then perhaps digitally sign the final product, if approved and move it > from the testing area to some publicly available part of the network. > > By having us do it Sony can avoid a majority of the Q&A expense, and > by allowing a pool of people to do the work they can grant and revoke > access to individuals as they see fit (if someone's been approving too > much crap, for example). They can also ensure that there are enough > people working on it and there's little worry about any one person > getting bored one week, or going on vacation, or being too busy at > work to go through the submissions. > > The "contract" portion could also ensure that the members of the > "committee" fully understand the quality standards required. I am not > thinking of a contract that will be set up to allow Sony to sue > someone for not performing his job properly, but rather, a contract to > ensure that if you don't do it properly, you lose your privileges and > nobody has to have any major argument about it. > > On the purpose of PS2 Linux: > > Maybe the question of price can be answered by producing more units. > Sadly, I don't feel that Linux is still ready for mainstream, but that > may change in the reasonably near future. If they built enough units > they could add one more marketing edge for the system. After all, > when people complain about the hefty price tag on the PS2, I remind > them that they are getting a PSX, a PS2, and a DVD player for that > price. I kinda wish they includes wireless remotes with the system so > that you wouldn't need to really even point out the DVD player aspect > -- it would be understood immediately. I also think retailers could > always put a unit next to their DVD players so that someone shopping > for a player may consider buying the console instead -- something that > may not really enter your mind if you're looking for a player. > > Anyway, the PS2 Linux kit conceivably adds (along with a few more > dollars) the fact that you get a computer -- and we're not talking a > silly webtv box, but a full blown system. > > What I'm trying to say is, given the right marketing, I bet Sony could > sell a *lot* of PS2 Linux kits. Given the wrong marketing, I may be > agreeing with you -- make it a little pricier so people who buy it > really do want it and know what they're getting. > > Anyway, enough about all that. > > Sauce > > On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:16:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" > wrote: > > >I agree that allowing amateur developers like us to self distribute anything > >we have written would go against the plug-and-play ethic Sony want for the > >PS2. It would probably be fractured and unrewarding for the users too if > >these programs for their PS2 could be placed anywhere on the internet. But > >this could be simply solved if Sony implement a cut-down QA submission > >process, posting our programs in a centralised reserve. Just like getting a > >Yaroze game approved for OPM you could get you Linux Kit game approved for > >distribution via the Broadband Network. > > > >I expect the main hurdle is if Sony are prepared to pay for this QA to be > >done when the games are going to be given away for free. It adds value to > >thier broadband network, but it's also an unreliable and inconsistent > >source. They did it for the Yaroze (on a smaller scale) with OPM so I guess > >it's possible. > > > >I believe the Yaroze2 element is just a subset of the Linux Kit, the OS and > >GUI means it can be used as a finished tool and need not ever be programmed. > >This worries me a little bit, mainly because the allocation numbers are so > >small and Linux lovers so numerous it might be hard to get hold of it to > >write games with. Secretly I hope that they release here with a higher price > >tag to put off those who just want to tweak, fiddle and run web servers. > > > >MattV > > > > > >Steven Osman wrote in message > >news:3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com... > >> Matt, > >> > >> I'm not quite sure, but I have a hunch that Sony doesn't want your > >> games to run on all systems. > >> > >> On one hand, I hate the thought of it, but then again, I appreciate > >> it, too. > >> > >> I can't tell you how many PC applications I've downloaded that were > >> just pure crap -- and that was the good ones. The bad ones messed up > >> the system, don't uninstall properly, etc, etc. One of the things > >> that sony does when they give you a prof. developer license is require > >> you to "accept" certain standards and adhere to them; in fact, in the > >> recent discussions about the NY demos being distributed, there were > >> additional guidelines and requirements for qualifying games. > >> > >> Perhaps the one thing all Yaroze members have in common is a sense of > >> adventure. Maybe being part of the community makes us aware of the > >> potential flaws in people's yaroze code as we download it, so we don't > >> blame it on the console and go buy the other guy's console (which > >> looks very suspiciously similar to a PC without a keyboard and mouse). > >> > >> Anyway, all that being said, I'm on your side, too. I thought the > >> dreamcast was kind of interesting with the little downloadable games > >> you could get for the VMU, I thought it'd be fun to write little VMU > >> games, for example. The dreamcast allowed you to download those games > >> right out of the box, too (i.e. modem was already included). > >> > >> As far as PS2 Linux, I'm still confused about something. I can't tell > >> if it was intended to be akin to a "Net Yaroze 2," or if it was more > >> about letting people use the computer they've already bought without > >> knowing it (i.e. why bother buying a computer when you can just pop in > >> a linux kit into the system you already have. Just think -- you get > >> ps2 + ps one + dvd player + computer all in one... Not bad, huh?) > >> > >> Sauce > >> > >> On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:02:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >I really hope SONY provide some mechanism to allow owners of the upcoming > >> >braodband adapter/HD to download programs by Linux Kit developers. > >Imagine > >> >if our yaroze games were available to all PS owners. > >> > > >> >MattV > >> > > >> > > >