Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: sosman@terratron.com (Steven Osman) Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.freetalk.english Subject: Re: PS2 Dev kit Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:52:51 GMT Organization: PlayStation Net Yaroze (SCEE) Lines: 177 Message-ID: <3b750068.1461248914@www.netyaroze-europe.com> References: <3B6A72B5.C98C7CB9@127.0.0.1> <3b6c1d6e.1206518802@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kh9pv$l511@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kj6cm$nog1@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <3b71d3d5.1318759035@www.netyaroze-europe.com> <9kn0eq$qtb2@www.netyaroze-europe.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dsl092-099-074.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Paul, Thanks for the link I got it from a mailing list already... But... I'm in the US! (I've already filled out the US interest form). Still, do you have any opinion on any of the crap I wrote below? (Unofficially, of course). Do you think it's something that could even be considered? Steven On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:56:20 +0100, "Paul Holman" wrote: >Check out ... > >http://www.technology.scee.net/cgi-bin/sceeweb1/scee.pl?ps2linuxint > >"Steven Osman" wrote in message >news:3b71d3d5.1318759035@www.netyaroze-europe.com... >> Matt, >> >> On PS2 Linux software distribution: >> >> You bring up some pretty interesting points. Honestly, I was tempted >> to split this message up in two (as I should have with the original) >> so we could have two good threads going on. >> >> From a technical perspective, what you suggest may not be impossible, >> and maybe we should even discuss with Sony the ability to administer >> such a part of their broadband network ourselves. >> >> Conceptually, someone could "contract" with Sony to perform the >> verification process. I'm sure lots of us would consider volunteering >> for the job. Anyway, we could have members from this pool download >> the games and place it in some temporary part of their broadband >> network (a sort of testing zone), test it out on our own machines, and >> then perhaps digitally sign the final product, if approved and move it >> from the testing area to some publicly available part of the network. >> >> By having us do it Sony can avoid a majority of the Q&A expense, and >> by allowing a pool of people to do the work they can grant and revoke >> access to individuals as they see fit (if someone's been approving too >> much crap, for example). They can also ensure that there are enough >> people working on it and there's little worry about any one person >> getting bored one week, or going on vacation, or being too busy at >> work to go through the submissions. >> >> The "contract" portion could also ensure that the members of the >> "committee" fully understand the quality standards required. I am not >> thinking of a contract that will be set up to allow Sony to sue >> someone for not performing his job properly, but rather, a contract to >> ensure that if you don't do it properly, you lose your privileges and >> nobody has to have any major argument about it. >> >> On the purpose of PS2 Linux: >> >> Maybe the question of price can be answered by producing more units. >> Sadly, I don't feel that Linux is still ready for mainstream, but that >> may change in the reasonably near future. If they built enough units >> they could add one more marketing edge for the system. After all, >> when people complain about the hefty price tag on the PS2, I remind >> them that they are getting a PSX, a PS2, and a DVD player for that >> price. I kinda wish they includes wireless remotes with the system so >> that you wouldn't need to really even point out the DVD player aspect >> -- it would be understood immediately. I also think retailers could >> always put a unit next to their DVD players so that someone shopping >> for a player may consider buying the console instead -- something that >> may not really enter your mind if you're looking for a player. >> >> Anyway, the PS2 Linux kit conceivably adds (along with a few more >> dollars) the fact that you get a computer -- and we're not talking a >> silly webtv box, but a full blown system. >> >> What I'm trying to say is, given the right marketing, I bet Sony could >> sell a *lot* of PS2 Linux kits. Given the wrong marketing, I may be >> agreeing with you -- make it a little pricier so people who buy it >> really do want it and know what they're getting. >> >> Anyway, enough about all that. >> >> Sauce >> >> On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:16:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" >> wrote: >> >> >I agree that allowing amateur developers like us to self distribute >anything >> >we have written would go against the plug-and-play ethic Sony want for >the >> >PS2. It would probably be fractured and unrewarding for the users too if >> >these programs for their PS2 could be placed anywhere on the internet. >But >> >this could be simply solved if Sony implement a cut-down QA submission >> >process, posting our programs in a centralised reserve. Just like getting >a >> >Yaroze game approved for OPM you could get you Linux Kit game approved >for >> >distribution via the Broadband Network. >> > >> >I expect the main hurdle is if Sony are prepared to pay for this QA to be >> >done when the games are going to be given away for free. It adds value to >> >thier broadband network, but it's also an unreliable and inconsistent >> >source. They did it for the Yaroze (on a smaller scale) with OPM so I >guess >> >it's possible. >> > >> >I believe the Yaroze2 element is just a subset of the Linux Kit, the OS >and >> >GUI means it can be used as a finished tool and need not ever be >programmed. >> >This worries me a little bit, mainly because the allocation numbers are >so >> >small and Linux lovers so numerous it might be hard to get hold of it to >> >write games with. Secretly I hope that they release here with a higher >price >> >tag to put off those who just want to tweak, fiddle and run web servers. >> > >> >MattV >> > >> > >> >Steven Osman wrote in message >> >news:3b6e5167.1219826968@www.netyaroze-europe.com... >> >> Matt, >> >> >> >> I'm not quite sure, but I have a hunch that Sony doesn't want your >> >> games to run on all systems. >> >> >> >> On one hand, I hate the thought of it, but then again, I appreciate >> >> it, too. >> >> >> >> I can't tell you how many PC applications I've downloaded that were >> >> just pure crap -- and that was the good ones. The bad ones messed up >> >> the system, don't uninstall properly, etc, etc. One of the things >> >> that sony does when they give you a prof. developer license is require >> >> you to "accept" certain standards and adhere to them; in fact, in the >> >> recent discussions about the NY demos being distributed, there were >> >> additional guidelines and requirements for qualifying games. >> >> >> >> Perhaps the one thing all Yaroze members have in common is a sense of >> >> adventure. Maybe being part of the community makes us aware of the >> >> potential flaws in people's yaroze code as we download it, so we don't >> >> blame it on the console and go buy the other guy's console (which >> >> looks very suspiciously similar to a PC without a keyboard and mouse). >> >> >> >> Anyway, all that being said, I'm on your side, too. I thought the >> >> dreamcast was kind of interesting with the little downloadable games >> >> you could get for the VMU, I thought it'd be fun to write little VMU >> >> games, for example. The dreamcast allowed you to download those games >> >> right out of the box, too (i.e. modem was already included). >> >> >> >> As far as PS2 Linux, I'm still confused about something. I can't tell >> >> if it was intended to be akin to a "Net Yaroze 2," or if it was more >> >> about letting people use the computer they've already bought without >> >> knowing it (i.e. why bother buying a computer when you can just pop in >> >> a linux kit into the system you already have. Just think -- you get >> >> ps2 + ps one + dvd player + computer all in one... Not bad, huh?) >> >> >> >> Sauce >> >> >> >> On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:02:25 +0100, "Matt Verran" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >I really hope SONY provide some mechanism to allow owners of the >upcoming >> >> >braodband adapter/HD to download programs by Linux Kit developers. >> >Imagine >> >> >if our yaroze games were available to all PS owners. >> >> > >> >> >MattV >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >