Path: chuka.playstation.co.uk!news From: alex@teeth.demon.co.uk (Alex Amsel) Newsgroups: scee.yaroze.programming.3d_graphics Subject: Re: 3D engines Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:06:37 GMT Organization: Into Beyond Lines: 81 Message-ID: <334b3a68.199522@news.playstation.co.uk> References: <3347dd19.3248416@news.playstation.co.uk> <3348D38C.1DC1@interactive.sony.com> <334A3648.1873@micronetics.com> <3349266B.7BD4@interactive.sony.com> <3349a345.33045335@news.playstation.co.uk> <334A3058.218B@interactive.sony.com> Reply-To: alex@teeth.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: teeth.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99g/32.335 Firstly, after writing this reply I had an idea. How about emailing a questionaire to all Yaroze owners asking questions like 'what did you expect from the Yaroze?', 'what did you want to do on the Yaroze', 'what would you like to see?' etc. Afterall, I am pretty opinionated (nooooo, never!) and could quite easily be wrong. Besides, be a useful exercise for Sony, and without too many owners it wouldn't take too long to go over the replies. Hell, I'll do it. On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:47:36 +0100, sceetech did quoth at me: , >At the moment the Yaroze is still a closed system, ( just like the full >PS development kit ) with the libraries supplying you access. If you >want to produce a landscape routine using the Yaroze libraries it >doesn't have to run as fast as it might do using hand coded asm/gte >code. That isn't really the point of the Yaroze. Appreciated , but the Yaroze /market/ (esp. in Europe) is at least as much for people who are going to be speed freaks etc. You aren't going to be getting AMOS programmers etc. using the Yaroze too often because it requires a sound C basis as well as some 3d knowledge. I think perhaps some of us expected something different - like an almost 'supported' console 'demo' scene. as well as the opportunity to write a few games. >I have seen hundreds of games come in, many using LibGS, and many using >'improved low level gte'. The performance differences in most cases come >more from interleaved assembly than any straight change of >functionality, and there are quite a few that seem to offer less >performance rather than more. Poor programming then! As for interleaved assembly, I'll get into that - can you recommend a good mips book? >With Yaroze the emphasis is more on providing new styles of gameplay - >original ideas, rather than upping your frame rate from 30 to 60. Personally I think both should be joint aims. But then I'm not a major Japanese company. Wish I was! >We will update the Yaroze libraries, but we are very unlikely to replace >them completely. After all the Japanese site has some excellent games, >and they use LibPS. Only because they don't have a choice. I got the idea that a reason for the Yaroze (unofficially) was to get more playstation programmers. Providing only those that use gs is 2nd best to those who can do their own 3d work. What are the best games on the Jap site? I saw that ftptest one which was alright. >Put your code on your sites though, I think that the sharing of code >between Yaroze members is one of the nicest things about the sight, but >don't expect miracles from Sony, after all we are a huge Japanese >company. All the more reason to expect miracles! I think most discussion here has been related to different expectations. I don't personally expect anything to change but I have to say it is nice to be able to discuss these issues publically. >PS: The full developers, who know about low level GTE etc, have all >signed VERY SECURE legal agreements with Sony, that allow us to torture >their families etc. if they leak info. After all the PS is big business >for us!!!!!!!!! I was wondering about all those missing people. I think the government should be told. Unless....they are all in on it too! Get Scully and Moulder... Scratch that, I'll just have Scully please (please please please). * Alex Amsel * Into Beyond Web Design & JAVA Programming * * http://www.intobeyond.com * WWFC Play off ****ers'97 * MM: "Hand the opposition the lead, the supporters love it"